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Post by lamazoid on Jul 9, 2013 7:18:00 GMT -8
I wish more people would wake up and get organised.....sigh...... Cheers, Nescio you are absolutely right. usa managed society destruction, lost of criticism in minds, total stupidness and absence of life point in minds of modern generation... but know what? the usa and all they do is just a "face" , the real problem is f**king jews who stand behind that through world bank system & capital. they afraid of muslims, cause of their strong religion traditions, thats not the society that can be slowly destroyed from inside (as they do in other world, inc. Russia), only by physical force. and that's exactly what we see now. oil, nuclear weapons, and other crap 's just a lie for stupid "mass society" to believe in.
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Post by Gary Lecomte on Jul 10, 2013 5:32:18 GMT -8
PLEASE KEEP THIS SITE NON-POLITICAL.
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Post by bonesmacgyver on Dec 8, 2013 8:11:48 GMT -8
Hey Guys,
Can i get the url for the parts site?
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Post by Gary Lecomte on Dec 8, 2013 19:12:55 GMT -8
Which Parts Site?
I supply some. chemelec.com or email me.
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Post by bonesmacgyver on Dec 10, 2013 20:26:58 GMT -8
.... but my point is, it's getting hard to send things from person to person these days, isn't it? If you want to find some parts, here's a good URL which is from a company in the Netherlands and they list all the parts mentioned on the steelrats as well as this site. I wish more people would wake up and get organised.....sigh...... Cheers, Nescio Hi Gary, I was curious about the parts site mentioned in the above post
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Post by tournesol on May 16, 2014 19:24:19 GMT -8
Dear Friends, It's been long time since I've been here. This definitely does not mean that I haven't been active. It's just because my activity is intermittent, grabbing some time for my hobby in between duties. I've been following the two electronic circuit concepts. The one utilizing an SCR, posted by Gary Lecomte and the one making use of a charge arrestor from steelrats. Boith circuits fire my imagination. I had some limited success, which I will elaborate on in another post Now, I would have liked to ask several questions. If, by chance, these questions had been already asked before and answered, please accept my apologies. I did try to find the answers, but failed. - 1. Regarding Gary Lecomte's stun gun 2 or 3 circuit: (input ca. 5.6-7.8V @ 1.5-2.4A)
a. What is the (a.c.) voltage expected at T1 output? (I get 400-600 V)
b. What is the expected frequency of T1 input? (I get 40-50 KHz)
c. What is the expected voltage after the complete voltage multipliers? (I get above 1050V)
d. In such a case, like mine, that I get above 1KV, will a 800V rated SCR still be applicable?
e. My feeling is that that the voltages I get are too high. Any suggestion as to what will be the best modifications so as to get best performance?
- 2. Regarding Steelrats (Lamazoid's?) malicious stun circuit: (input ca. 3.8-5.1V@ 2-2.5A)
a. What is the (a.c.) voltage expected at T1 output? (I get 380-550 V)
b. What is the expected frequency of T1 input? (I get 35-45 KHz)
c. The input current it draws is ca 2.5A and more. I suspect it's too high.
d. What is the expected voltage after the diode bridge? (I get above 800-900V and more)
e. In such a case, like mine, that I get above ~1KV, and input currents above 2.5A, how can I modify the first stage oscillator (changing resistance? changing T1 primary windings to more than 2x3?) and what arrestor rating will be correct?
Note: my actual input battery will be 7.8V Li-ion pack. Right now, using power supply, I can increase the voltage beyond 4.1 V since the currents drawn by the circuit are way above 2.7A. This will inflict huge stress on the source, and produce excessive heat on the first stage oscillator. That’s my concern. I will be happy to get any inputs and suggestion. Thank you in advance, Dr. Tournesol
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Post by Gary Lecomte on May 17, 2014 6:38:27 GMT -8
Sorry I Don't have Any of these devices anymore. I Only Posted them to show basic operation. NOT as Construction Articles. So I Can't tell you What Voltage or Frequency I was getting.
However, If you have built the COMPLETE Circuit. The Setting of the Pot will determine how often the SCR Fires. The FASTER it Fires, The More it will PULL DOWN the Supply Voltage.
I Never had any Failures of the SCR.
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Post by tournesol on May 18, 2014 6:45:11 GMT -8
Dear Gary Lecomte, Thanks for the rapid and kind reply. Dr. Tournesol.
BTW. May I ask yours, and other member's opinion, in this post, regarding T2 secondary winding and potting idea as presented by Lamazoid in Steel Rats Club. In this post, he presented a nice idea, in which T2 is practically winded as one, ca. 200mm layer, onto a rod of ca. 250 mm long. When the rod is released, the loosened winding is then squeezed to the length of the ferrite and primary winding of ca. 20-25mm. What made me wonder was that in the instructions it is written explicitly: "you must have accurate winding without spaces and overlaps". However, after squeezing, the wire windings are sure to be entangled and contain lots of overlaps. Thus, my question is if this idea, in particular, should work well, and in general, how critical/detrimental/important is, for the functionality of a transformer, that the windings will be without spaces and overlaps? I exclude the issue of size and beauty of the winding. Yours, Dr. Tournesol
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Post by Gary Lecomte on May 18, 2014 8:58:16 GMT -8
Sounds Strange. It does not make any sense to me.
Where did you see This? What Page or What Date was this posted?
Maybe Lamazoid can clairfy this?
Gary
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Post by tournesol on May 18, 2014 19:51:12 GMT -8
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Post by lamazoid on May 18, 2014 22:41:03 GMT -8
- 2. Regarding Steelrats (Lamazoid's?) malicious stun circuit: (input ca. 3.8-5.1V@ 2-2.5A)
a. What is the (a.c.) voltage expected at T1 output? (I get 380-550 V)
b. What is the expected frequency of T1 input? (I get 35-45 KHz)
c. The input current it draws is ca 2.5A and more. I suspect it's too high.
d. What is the expected voltage after the diode bridge? (I get above 800-900V and more)
e. In such a case, like mine, that I get above ~1KV, and input currents above 2.5A, how can I modify the first stage oscillator (changing resistance? changing T1 primary windings to more than 2x3?) and what arrestor rating will be correct?
Note: my actual input battery will be 7.8V Li-ion pack. Right now, using power supply, I can increase the voltage beyond 4.1 V since the currents drawn by the circuit are way above 2.7A. This will inflict huge stress on the source, and produce excessive heat on the first stage oscillator. That’s my concern. I will be happy to get any inputs and suggestion. Thank you in advance, Dr. Tournesol Hello! Sorry for the delayed response, i went to the woods for some camping & fishing In original "malicious stun gun" design from SRC, the oscillator section was copied from the commercial Russian stun guns, and modified to work with relatively weak power supply (compared to modern Li-Po batteries). The circuit by itself can draw as much current, as you will provide, until it burns. So, i see no point in debugging the circuit by measuring output voltage, frequency, etc., using lab power supply. That simply will give wrong result and pull you aside from correct way. I have posted commercial circuit on my blog: ecdinside.net/?page_id=121It's designed for 8 x Ni-Mh cells supply, but also works perfectly with 2 or 3 li-po cells. You can use it as a base to get original "malicious" gun work with new supply. So, what should be changed in original SRC design: - replace bipolar transistors with IRFZ44N or like, with 460-680 ohm resistors
- Add a choke of 30-40 uH , rated for 3A current (minimum). something suitable could be found on dead PC motherboard
- replace capacitor before the bridge rectifier with smaller value, 220 to 330pf @3kv (HV ceramic disc type works best)
- wind T1 primary 4+4 turns, bifilar wound for best performance. secondary of about 800 turns should be far enough for 1400v arrester.
- you can use specified R4000F (R3000F to R5000F) diodes in bridge, if you have them. but, higher current and faster recovery ones should be used across T2 primary.
As to your second question about my T2 design, i say it simply requires some patience, just need to "get the hand". I also have an article with this transformer modified for 1400v basis: ecdinside.net/?page_id=140Generally, in this design the uniformity of the winding is very important. To achieve this, optimum rod diameter, wire diameter and winding length should be maintained. In this particular design (for 10x50 ferrite rod), it's 12.5, 0.16 and 300mm respectively, which results into 1400-1500 turns. Another important thing with this kind of winding is surface leaks, which tend to develop into surface breakdown. That happens because any smooth insulaton material like Teflon always has a molecular moisture layer onto its surface, which makes the surface breakdown much easier to occur than in a free-air gap. To prevent this, you need to put a layer of epoxy-adhesive material directly under secondary winding, ex. the "cloth" insulation tape (like one shown here www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=24849.0) The best way is to "snake" wind a strip of that material, making a little gap between the turns. I've mentioned this into the article, but unfortunately forgot to make photos
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Post by Dr. Tournesol on May 19, 2014 22:24:49 GMT -8
Dear Lamazoid. Thank you so much for the rapid, kind and detailed answer. I also hope you enjoyed your camping in the woods as I would have, if there were woods in my country… It sounds like a dream. I appologize ahead for my rather looong post.
I want to post several questions, with the hope I am not bugging too much. I have some difficulties in understanding your suggestions due to my poor English, and my very limited experience with electronics (although I am working with tandem, 3.4-5.1 MeV particle accelerator, X-ray photoelectron spectroscopy and various other high energy gadgets). • “Generally, in this design the uniformity of the winding is very important. “. May I kindly ask you what exactly do you mean by “uniformity”? I can find an adequate rod for the T2 secondary winding, using roughly your proportions (BTW, my ferrite bar is 30 mm long and 6mm dia.). I have the means also to wind quite nicely and uniformly the single layer. My concern is, that as I will compress it to the 30 mm length, the nice, uniform winding is going to lose its elegant uniformity, and I am sure there will be wires entangles and some mild mess. Will this winding be still effective? I presume that part of the answer will be yes; otherwise you would have not suggested it. But I am curious what are the compromises in functionality am I going to live with, compared to 10 times, insulated, layer by layer secondary winding of the traditional way. Actually, perhaps my general question is how critical is that T2 winding will have no spaces, and more important, overlaps. • As I get it that you have lots of knowledge, experience and know-how, I’d like to ask you about some materials I have at hand, both for potting and for interlayer insulation (in case that I wind T2 secondary layer by layer: You and other recommend Nomex or fish paper. I have thin Kapton foil of any size and length. Transparency foils, those that were common for projector presentations, made of cellulose acetate. Thin, ca. 0.1mm Teflon foil. Is any of these should do the work, or do you know of any of these that sure be bad. Potting material: two component epoxy- liquid and low viscosity, but must be cured at 100 deg. Celsius. Araldite: two component epoxy resin, pretty viscous, 1h setting. Non acidic, non-acetate PDMS[(poly(dimethylsiloxane), RTV/silicon rubber)]. Any additional suggestions for materials for both purposes? I have at had a huge variety of exotic materials in all forms and shapes. • Is there a vital difference between bifular winding and simple middle tapped one? • “Add a choke of 30-40 uH” I guess between the supply+ and the circuit. Is this purposed to protect the circuit from RF? • “The best way is to "snake" wind a strip of that material”. Do you mean that I’d better apply a layer of this vintage-style-cloth-electrical-tape between the resulting secondary and the ferrite winded primary? And, this is in order that a significant layer of epoxy will be sucked in between these windings? Please correct me if I am wrong. A note (given by an expert in surface chemistry): “any smooth insulation material like Teflon always has a molecular moisture layer onto its surface”: 1. ANY surface, whether smooth, corrugated or porous adsorb ANY air-born material it is in contact with. Water is definitely one of the major adsorbants due to its abundance and peculiar nature. 2. The more corrugated the surface, the more adsorbed species it will hold (actual surface area is larger than geometrical). Porous media will hold orders of magnitude adsorbants due to their specific surface area. 3. There is non-negligible difference in propensity for water adsorption among different materials. As a rule of thumb, the more hydrophilic the material, the more water will be adsorbed onto it. Teflon is one of the most hydrophobic common materials.
Thank you in advance for any help, comment, suggestion or reproach. Dr. Tournesol.
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Post by lamazoid on May 20, 2014 3:15:58 GMT -8
First of all, i should say, that i'm not a professional scientist, my primary education relates to computers, databases, networks & web programming. Electronics is my hobby, among many others, and i prefer more practice than theoretical digging. Most of my experience comes from practice. Also, English is not my native, and my knowledge is far from ideal. Another problem is that in Russian we use many slang words, which does not have direct translation. I'm not talking only about obscene lexicon, but technical slang also, and in particular, related to HV and stun guns topic. Any automatic translator like Goggle will fail here. So, my explanations sometimes could be difficult to understand, you should forgive me that Now i'll try to answer your questions more thoroughly. -When i say "uniformity" i mean: uniformity of compressed winding. There should be no overlaps, and other kinds of mess. This can be explained as compressed variable diameter spring: And whole winding could be presented as many such springs connected in series. So, each "spring" is in fact an overlapped wire, BUT they should not overlap each other! That could happen if the winding rod diameter is too high (much higher than ferrite rod diameter). They key to reliability of this winding is total number of turns per mm of length. This was experimentally picked up that way, so maximum generated voltage is much less than breakdown limit. Traditional layer wound transformer will be slightly more effective, but also difficult to make and requires special materials and equipment (vacuum chamber). Compressed winding was developed under concept of "kitchen technology" , when the user has no access to those equipment and materials. If you have this, maybe you should really make layer wound or sectional (Delrin bobbin) transformer. -I think, best materials are Kapton and Teflon. But if you have Kapton with glue layer (kapton scotch tape), it cannot be used in layer wound transformer to insulate between layers. I have never recommended "Nomex" or "fish paper", as i never used it, and didn't ever see. But Gary says it also works well in layer wound transformers. The best potting material is regular cold curing epoxy, 24h setting, warmed on water bath to 37-38 deg. Celsius. The viscosity should be like transmission oil. Sorry, i do not know exact names or brands of epoxy to recommend. In Russia this is just one type, which could be found in ANY store, and it's the same during decades, as was in USSR, including package design Maybe Gary can recommend some exact brands from your market. -No, there is no VITAL difference, but bifular winding works a little better, improving overall efficiency. Of course, wire connections and phasing are the same as in "middle tapped" variant. -Yes, the choke in series with + supply. Its not related to RF protection, the choke performs several functions specific to this type of converter. In simple words, it improves conversion efficiency with high-current capable supply, like Li-Po batteries. -That's the thing which is hard to explain in translation The problem is not exactly in "molecular layer of moisture", that's only how i see it. Maybe the correct physical explanation is much more complex. BUT the fact is, that with the same voltage, surface breakdown distance in much higher than in free-air. Look at power line insulator construction, shown in Gary's article: chemelec.com/Projects/Stun-Gun-1/Stun-Gun.htmYou see? It's designed to maximise surface path. And here is the same goal with our compressed winding, because is lays over a soft material. And the solution is to put some epoxy-impregnable material directly UNDER the secondary, to prevent surface breakdown along the border of contact of expoxy and underlying insulation of primary. So the overall structure (in a cross-cut view) will be: ferrite rod - insulation (teflon or kapton) - primary winding - insulation (teflon or kapton) - IMPREGNABLE LAYER (cloth tape) - secondary winding - transformer case (syringe or else). When i'm talking about "snake winding with a strip" i mean this: here the yellow insulation tape is "snake wound" (thats one of russian tech. slang terms) Hope this helps.
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Post by Gary Lecomte on May 20, 2014 7:21:52 GMT -8
Yes I Recommend Nomex. It has good insulation properties, but it is also somewhat Rigid, so it allows to wind Very even Layers, one over the other. It is also available in numerous Thickness's.
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Post by lamazoid on May 20, 2014 8:17:35 GMT -8
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