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Post by Dr. Tournesol on Nov 5, 2013 23:06:54 GMT -8
Dear Friends, As you may easily get, I am interested in experimenting with the stun-gun design/s you have posted. The production of a sectional bobbin seemds one of the exiting parts, so I lathed a 30 mm long (as my ferrite rod length) sectional bobbin from Delrin, with 2mm sections spaced by 0.5 mm. I have to concerns now, which I would like to have your input on, regarding the secondary winding and potting: 1. Is the correct way of winding is completing winding each section and then continuing with the next section, or the idea is laying the first winding layer in all sections, one after the other, and them proceeding to the next layer? 2. Insulation and potting. I understand (well, I hope so...) that winding sectional bobbin removes the need for insulation between layers (with nomex). Pleas comment. Than, for efficient potting I have access to any imaginable vacuum system (from 3x10-3 to 5x10-10 torr). My question is with what kind of epoxy should I work, as most of them are kind of semi-gel like, or extremely viscous. My concern is that the viscosity of the glue will preclude its ability to penetrate well through the compact wingdings, even at goo vacuum, and thus leave unpotted/insulated parts. Does it make sense to dilute, with a proper solvent, the uncured epoxy so as to impart it the necessary creep ability? Do you have nice ideas on this one? Thank you in advance for any input. BTW: I am having lots of enjoyment reading through the web pages as well as the forum. The evolution of perfection is clearly see. Best, Dr. Tournesol
Another BTW: Its easy to recognize that I am electronics novice. However, working with a particle accelerator of 5.1 MeV makes me feel quite comfortable to workwith "low voltages" od only few KV's...
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Post by Gary Lecomte on Nov 6, 2013 6:15:00 GMT -8
How About posting a Picture of your Bobbin.Here is a picture of a bobbin I made. (Not for a Stun Gun, But for a Simular HV type of device.) The Yellow taped section is the Primary. The other sections are the Secondary starting at the Right Side and winding over to the Left Side. Your Epoxy Should NOT be a Jel Type. But most Epoxys are also NOT Thin Liquid. And Do NOT TRY to Delute the Epoxy. Attachments:
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Post by Dr. Tournesol on Nov 6, 2013 23:09:34 GMT -8
Dear Gary, Thanks for the swift reply. I sure will post a photo, but please give me several days. I am slow with pictures and uploading. Two additional notes and questions I have right now. First, as to my T2 secondary winding, I got the answer buried in one of the forum sessions. As I get it the sectional bobbin winding should be carried out section after section. Second, reading most of the relevant posts and answers in the forum, there are a lot of correspondences regarding the “charge arrestor”. I am following the “more power” stun gun scheme and instructions, and I thought that the use of the SCR/diac (or neon bulb?) eliminated the use of the arrestor. Where do I go wrong with my understanding? Is all this forum section pertains to steelrats design? Last, preferring to utilize MOSFETS, are there any crucial adjustments that I should do to the circuit? For instance, is there a need to earth the gate through a resistor for proper functioning? Anything else to be considered when selecting the MOSFET? I intend to use power MOSFETS from old CRT monitors, those that drive the flyback transformer. They are rated HV and are very fast. All the best, Dr. Tournesol
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Post by tournesol on Nov 7, 2013 8:07:16 GMT -8
Dear Gary, Thanks for the swift reply. I sure will post a photo, but please give me several days. I am slow with pictures and uploading. Two additional notes and questions I have right now. First, as to my T2 secondary winding, I got the answer buried in one of the forum sessions. As I get it the sectional bobbin winding should be carried out section after section. Second, reading most of the relevant posts and answers in the forum, there are a lot of correspondences regarding the “charge arrestor”. I am following the “more power” stun gun scheme and instructions, and I thought that the use of the SCR/diac (or neon bulb?) eliminated the use of the arrestor. Where do I go wrong with my understanding? Is all this forum section pertains to steelrats design? Last, preferring to utilize MOSFETS, are there any crucial adjustments that I should do to the circuit? For instance, is there a need to earth the gate through a resistor for proper functioning? Anything else to be considered when selecting the MOSFET? I intend to use power MOSFETS from old CRT monitors, those that drive the flyback transformer. They are rated HV and are very fast. All the best, Dr. Tournesol Eventually, I managed quicker than I thought. Bobbin: Material: Delrin. Length: 30 mm (as the ferrite rod I have) sections: 2 mm wide, 5 mm deep. 0.5 mm walls First and last wall 1.4 mm. Bore: 7.6 mm T2 primary is to be winded onto the ferrite rod. Regards. Attachments:
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Post by Gary Lecomte on Nov 7, 2013 8:11:18 GMT -8
linkMore Power? I just noticed you are Not a REGISTERED Member. So you Can't Post attachments. I assume by the "More Powerful", you are referring to this stun gun? It uses Transistors, Not Mosfets. (HV types are NOT important in this part of the circuit.) It also uses an SCR instead of an Arrestor. Steelrats Promotes building Stun Guns. I DO NOT. My Stun Gun Articles are just to help people Understand there Operation. You Don't say Where you Live?, But if you want to discuss this easier, you might consider EMAILING Me more info or even your Phone Number to discuss this, one on one.
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Post by lamazoid on Nov 7, 2013 12:21:03 GMT -8
With just 0.5mm walls you'll get trouble insulating the beginning of each section from it's end. I've managed to do so in my earlier designs, putting a small piece of HV insulation into each section. But further practice had shown, that its tricky and very unreliable. I advice you to make thicker walls bobbin with lengthwise cut, just like one on Gary's photo.
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Post by tournesol on Nov 7, 2013 22:32:57 GMT -8
Thanks both Gary and Lamazoid. First, to answer Gary's question (BTW, I registered just several hours before you answered) I am from Israel. I fully understand Gary's dislike of promotion for building such devices. For me, the reason to involve myself in such an adventure is primarily learning. Without "dirty hands" I found that my understanding many times lacks. It's certainly easier, and probably not much expensive to purchase one. The only case I can see myself needing one is when walk with my wife in the desert or in the countryside, all alone, and, as it happened few times, encountered by stray dogs. It is, by no means fun. As I will progress, and that will probably be VERY slow (I have only seldom spare time) I may use your advice and contact you personally. Lamazoid: could you please explain, in a simple way, as for a lay man, why, or how "get trouble insulating the beginning of each section from it's end"
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Post by Gary Lecomte on Nov 8, 2013 7:14:22 GMT -8
The Biggest problem I see with just 0.5 mm is the windings in the grooves will cause the walls to bend. I would recommend 1.0 mm for better strength.
And I Don't see a Lengthwise Cut, to allow the wire to go from one groove to the next.
Also your Groove for your Primary winding should be about Twice the width of the other grooves.
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Post by lamazoid on Nov 8, 2013 9:35:50 GMT -8
i'll explain Steelrats point of view. we're not promoting guns or explosives, or ANY intentional violence against living creatures, even animals. but we are propagating information and rights freedom in society. people should be able to decide, if they need guns, or not, and should be able to buy one without limitations. in Russia, they are not. (but the way, as i know, in Israel guns are allowed and freely distributed) so we are providing KNOWLEGE how to obtain and/or make something really effective, but only for self defence, when there is no other choice. Except these "known aspects" of SRC, we do research on gardening, housekeeping, ancient/traditional technologies, etc. Everything, that could help an individual to break free from sick industrial consumption-addicted society and return back to natural living.
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Post by KevinK on Feb 28, 2018 16:24:29 GMT -8
Don't mean to bump up an old thread, but that T2 design made me drool I'd love to have the equipment to make sectional bobbins. I think the aesthetics of them are nicer than the layered coils.
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Post by lamazoid on Mar 1, 2018 0:21:01 GMT -8
Don't mean to bump up an old thread, but that T2 design made me drool I'd love to have the equipment to make sectional bobbins. I think the aesthetics of them are nicer than the layered coils. sectional bobbins are good for "shaped pulse" circuits. in classic stun gun design, when there's only a capacitor and spark gap , sectional T2 will produce narrow, high-amplitude pulses. it can still have a "wow effect" but has very low efficiency against human target. added later: when i'm talking about output of T2, i mean LOADED output. in Russia, all measurements are made on 1000 Ohm load. in USA, as far as i know, it's 600 Ohm. at least, taser inc. provides specification for their devices on 600 ohm. load. and so, a good stun gun, with "drop down" effect, should have at least 1500V , 60 us pulse @120-140 Hz repetition rate. (by russian standard)
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Post by KevinK on Mar 1, 2018 3:38:58 GMT -8
I'm positive you know what you are talking about. I do not. I spent the evening on the x-shoker forums via Google translate. Felt like I had tourettes in my head. I did learn a few things. The over all LOOK of this one is aesthetically pleasing .
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Post by lamazoid on Mar 1, 2018 5:51:53 GMT -8
I spent the evening on the x-shoker forums via Google translate. . View Attachmentwell, that must be bad evening ((( because x-shoker is kinda controversial site for dummies, made by dummies, which know nothing, but want to teach everyone. they have stolen all ideas from SRC, but that was not enough - they began to "modify" circuits without any understanding of electronics. and finally modified them to hell in Russia, we call sites like that "a crapper" , and indeed it is one of the best examples of useless resources filled by crap.(as the heads of their creators) also filled by tons of advertising in try so earn some benefit )) poor, poor users which are led there by google (((( unfortunately , modern *web* , especially in Russia, now is overfilled with that crap. and search engines like google do not filter it, no, they behave absolutely contrary - consider this a "good" resource because of high citing index. poor average users looking for some revelations (or instructions to apply hands to) find themselves digging that crap, and it takes a lot of time for them to understand which way is right.... if this understanding ever happens (( if you want to spend some time with useful reading, read the source, the forum from which it all had began: forum.guns.ru/forumtopics/35.htmlespecially this threads: forum.guns.ru/forummessage/35/34.htmlforum.guns.ru/forummessage/35/509779.htmland there's also some index: forum.guns.ru/forummessage/35/670657.html
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Post by KevinK on Mar 1, 2018 15:41:25 GMT -8
Ok, that makes SO MUCH more sense now. Not that I am trying to act all pretentious as if *I* know alot. I don't I don't know of all the politics that surround it, but such a thing always seems to happen. And from what I have read they seem to be chasing their tale a lot. I basically went there for the pictures. I have no fight in this, and the last thing I need is some Russian stun gun mafia after me. I recently found the guns.ru site, but haven't had the chance to browse yet. Thanks yet again for the info.
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Post by lamazoid on Mar 1, 2018 23:39:40 GMT -8
Ok, that makes SO MUCH more sense now. Not that I am trying to act all pretentious as if *I* know alot. I don't I don't know of all the politics that surround it, but such a thing always seems to happen. And from what I have read they seem to be chasing their tale a lot. I basically went there for the pictures. I have no fight in this, and the last thing I need is some Russian stun gun mafia after me. I recently found the guns.ru site, but haven't had the chance to browse yet. Thanks yet again for the info. russian stun guns mafia sounds very fun. as we say, do not seek for a hidden meaning when it's all can be explained by regular stupidness there is no conspiracy about fooling people (in collusion with Google propably, lol) by these "resources", there are just stupid and greedy bastards, flooding everything with that crappy "content" in hope of earning some money for it. just like on Youtube , where most videos are stupid and useless... maybe it's hard to understand for you, as American internet is not (yet?) contaminated with that "crappy" virus. there are still some good old school sites, like this one
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